28JAN09:
Q1-09 DOW: 8900
Q2-09 DOW: 7250
Q3-09 DOW: 5810
Q4-09 DOW: 3960
CITI NATIONALIZED
OBAMA GETS SICK 27AUG09:
Mini Crash 21SEP09 Predicted correctly:
Bailout=Bonuses
Demise of Bear Stearns
Demise of Lehman Bros.
Demise of AIG
Subprime would cause problems
Date of 2007 crash
CRAs were to blame
G20 riots were a party
Northern Rock run
Northern Rock Nationalization
HBOS and RBS demise
UBS really was Useless
Tremont, Fairfield Greenwich, UBP, SFG, EIM, RBS, Notz Stucki, Syz & Co, Pictet (see below), Carl Shapiro, Nomura, the Loeb family, HSBC, Fred Wilpon, Optimal (Santander), The Robert I. Lappin Charitable Foundation, Vincent Tchenguiz, Pioneer, UniCredit, Bramdean to name just a few of the red face idiots who don't know what the words "due diligence" mean. We all make mistakes, but this is crazy. Take UBP. They are one the world's largest allocators to hedge funds. They pride themselves on a sophisticated due diligence process, a robust on going risk management, and an ability to pick the best. Shame they didn't listen to the rumblings and rumors that dogged Madoff for years, and that his low volatility returns were just not possible. Sometimes one has to ask even more questions when things seem to be too good to be true. But asking questions takes time and greed doesn't like time.
Madman Madoff was someone very few investors met. He would often say his strategy was too complicated to explain and used a number of third party gatekeepers, who he entrusted to ensnare greedy investors, to sell his low but consistent double digit returns. I met some once. They were slick and let you know that I was privileged to have been considered an investor. The great and good were invested and they must have surely carried basic tests that the strategy worked and basic internal controls were in place? But something didn't smell right and I said no. Just because everyone else was invested, then he must have been a safe bet, I thought. But for whatever reason I didn't pursue the bait.
Although I have full sympathy with families and non profit organisations wiped out, caveat emptor is all I can say to these ignorant and stupid people who never asked questions. UBP; what a bunch of losers. And as for Tremont ...or worse still Pioneer. RBS is run by a bunch of morons [sic] and it was to be expected they had exposure. Super mouth Horlick of Bramdean has once again shown us she was there at the right time and the right place but is now just another manager without a clue. And for all the risk averse Swissies out there following each other's strategies, what can you say?
Time and time again. And time and time again in the USA where lip service is paid to regulation and common sense. Just like Bayou; when that collapsed investors learned that in future they needed to be sure there were lots of independent advisers like well known auditors, custodians and administrators who would act as keepers of the books and records.
So when Refco IPO'd and all the boxes were ticked, investors felt good. But this still wasn't enough to avoid another major embarrassment. Petters is another big fraud in the making and we await the outcome of this. But of course these are tiny blips on the radar against Madoff's USD50 billion (give or take a few billion) ponzi scheme. Thanks to the credit crunch and the world's panic to get into cash, this has all come to light today.
The USA will have to change. Obama will be forced to follow the regulation much of the rest of the world has. None are perfect - the UK's own FSA had no idea how to control the lying banks and their made up balance sheets, but at least there is a culture of regulation, compliance manuals, best practice and most important third part administrators and prime brokers. I cannot think of 1 UK hedge fund that has gone down because of fraud.
So here is some advice. If the fund you want to invest in has independent pricing, uses third party brokers and the managers and advisers are regulated, then move onto the next stage of the due diligence process.
If not, and you invest, you are a fool and deserve everything you get. I still don't understand why many HNW's concentrate their risks when diversifying is so much safer but hey ho that's the way it goes. Not that those who got out early have anything to laugh about. Following the Bayou case, investors who redeemed early are being clawed back because the money isn't theirs. And what a shame so much tax has been paid on income returns that was actually capital.
So what will this do to the hedge fund industry? Well it could completely kill it off. Seriously, Madoff could impact my world for many years to come. Why would any investor want to trust anyone ever again?
As my mother used to say, don't trust anyone especially oneself. It looks we are all going to follow her lead from now on.
Happiness Last week a number of FINTAG'S CRAP CARTOONS were placed in various book stores including Waterstones, Mayfair, Heathrow T5, Greenwich CT, Barnes & Noble - 5th Avenue, Zurich airport and a Tokyo bookshop that I cannot translate. Today more books will be placed in the City of London.
2 have been found and are on ebay - starting bid less than they cost. Nice.
Update * I have been informed by Pictet that they do not have any exposure. Another eagle eyed reader has found a feeder with Citco as administrator and PWC as auditor - more to follow ...
The City's “superwoman”, Nicola Horlick, has launched a scathing attack on US financial regulators following the emergence of a $50 billion (£33 billion) investment scam.
The swindle allegedly perpetrated by one of Wall Street's most celebrated traders is being called the biggest fraud in corporate history.
The roster of A-list victims of the scam allegedly run by Bernard Madoff, one of the most respected names on Wall Street until his arrest, reads like a Who's Who of international business, high society and the philanthropic elite.
Experts warned that some of Britain's pension funds and insurance companies were likely to have invested with Mr Madoff, too.
Fintag says Our drops may have dropped but this will have serious implications for us all.
castlehall says " Madoff - Where do we even begin? "
But investors are not merely fleeing funds that have done poorly. Many are exiting funds that have done well in order to cover losses on their other investments.
“We have become the A.T.M. machines for people that need cash,” said George Weiss, who heads a $3 billion hedge fund. Mr. Weiss, who has been a hedge fund manager for 20 years, said that his fund was down about 7.5 percent so far this year — far less than the broad stock market. Even so, his investors have withdrawn about 35 percent of their money.
Fintag says Cash is king. Near cash is no where near king. I hold cash but investors want to hold it themselves. All this news of corruption, incompetence and fraud just makes it worse. In the last few months we have had Dreier, Petters and Madoff adding to the pot of insecurity and to be frank, I am not called frank.
Citadel Investment Group LLC, a sizable U.S. hedge fund, said on Saturday it has halted redemptions from its two largest funds until at least March. The suspension affects the Kensington and Wellington funds.
The decision was 'driven by continued volatility in the market,' Citadel spokeswoman Katie Spring told Reuters in an e-mail.
Fintag says The problem we have now is if you run a fund that is say up 10% this year, the investors won't believe it and redeem. If you are down 10% they will redeem despite you outperforming all the leading indices. But the good news is that this is a temporary aberation. Only the strong will survive but when inflation kicks in next year (I have at last realised deflation is a non starter) investors will invest.
Next time they will demand full transparency, regulation and take out insurance products.
CBI ATTACKS £1 TRILLION DEBT RACKED UP BY PUBLIC SECTOR PENSIONS
The CBI, Britain's biggest business group, will today launch an attack on over-generous public-sector pensions that it believes represent an unjustifiable drain on the public finances.
The CBI will say that the last published figures for unfunded public sector pension schemes show that they have liabilities of over £915bn, but this figure may now exceed £1 trillion, because the Government has not released full figures since March 2006.
John Cridland, CBI deputy director general, said: “Public-sector workers should have a good retirement, but we need to talk openly about how we split the bill. The debt that is being racked up is truly eye-watering and is set to get much worse.
Fintag says This makes me want to cry. Selfish I maybe, but there is no way I will be paying taxes to support these people.
Goldman Sachs, the US investment bank, is this week expected to post its first loss since the Wall Street crash of 1929 when it unveils full-year results on Tuesday.
In the week when many Square Mile bank staff find out if they have scooped a bonus this year, Morgan Stanley is expected to complete a miserable Christmas picture when it also reports a loss, one day later.
Alex Potter, banking analyst at stockbroker Collins Stewart, said: "For these two remaining November year-end reporters, the past three months will have been pivotal to their year as well as to the 2009 outlook. This period encompassed the Lehman failure, as well as the nationalisations of Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and AIG."
The head of Barclays bank has predicted that economic gloom will deepen, with property prices falling by up to 30%.
John Varley's warning comes ahead of the latest UK unemployment figures on Wednesday, where the number of jobless is expected to rise sharply.
Fintag says My analysts reckon that UK house prices, under the current conditions of it being harder to obtain a mortgage plus higher depostits required, that they will fall to 1991 levels.
Imagine that? Being able to buy a 5 bedroom house in Kensington & Chelsea for less a million pounds?
While most hedge funds are restricting redemptions, SAC Capital Advisors is inviting them.
The Stamford, Conn.-based hedge fund giant has told investors in its Multi-Strategy Fund that they can withdraw their money early, with certain restrictions. Clients have until the end of the year to tell SAC if they want their money back during the first half of next year.
Fintag says Now that is nice - allowing investors to get some of their investments back.
It's no secret that China needs energy and natural resources to sustain its industrialisation and urbanisation path, nor that it has to look for them abroad. For security reasons it makes sense for the country to diversify its sources, and there is plenty of evidence that it has been actively doing so for several years by forging ties in Africa, Asia, Latin America and Europe.
But more than that, China is looking for non-traditional export markets, as it moves up the value chain by seeking next generation technologies in advanced manufacturing, electronics and aerospace.
Fintag says Worried? I am.
HEDGE FUNDS ARE VICTIMS, RAISING FURTHER QUESTIONS
“It can't help but have the effect of further chipping away at the confidence that the investor community has in the hedge fund industry,” said Ralph L. Schlosstein, the chief executive of Highview Investment Group, a money management firm and a former president of BlackRock. “But like many things that come at moments of fragility, its impact is magnified.”
The collapse of Mr. Madoff's firm took the vast majority of investors by surprise. Mr. Madoff, once the largest market maker on the Nasdaq stock market, was known for his modest demeanor and, perhaps more important, his steady and overwhelmingly positive returns. That in turn appears to have attracted scores of investors, from Palm Beach country clubs to Manhattan social circles.
Fintag says Me? A Victim? As 2008 draws to a close, it is evident that it has been one of the most incredulous years. I really hope 2009 is really dull and things are predictable again. Like a foggy London, I want the myths to be reality and not the other way round. [Editor: Uh?].
78 comments
anonymous said ...
before this blog gets launched into usual MsR/annon pointlessness please could someone explain how citadel gets away with this. Redemptions are 12% of AUM, their cash position is 25-30%, so what is the justification for gating? Evidently they don't have the excuse of shielding remaining fund investors from fire-selling assets at bargain-basement levels...all redemptions can be met with cash!
15 Dec 08 - 07:44 gmt
anonymous said ...
Pioneer is run like the italian mafia - more politics than investing
15 Dec 08 - 08:39 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
Good Morning Fin, MrsR, I'm back from cold, grey, wet, Seattle, where everyone seems to be in a mass hysteria psychosis about how utterly horrible things are. Yet I find the coffee shops full and everyone has not 1 but 2 or more electronic devices on them such as cell phone, Ipod, and blackberry...all costing monthly payments.
15 Dec 08 - 08:40 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
I think people under the age of 40 don't remember the Carter years where we were told to turn down the thermostats in the winter to conserve energy and wear more sweaters. Will the populace under 40 take to the streets when they can't pay their monthly cell/text bill?
15 Dec 08 - 08:42 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
Then there's the over 40 crowd that bought into the idea of 401k's and IRAs - tax deferred accounts for retirement since everyone knew social security in America would not be more then $800 a month for them. They're now worried that 20 plus years won't make up for what they lost. Will they take to the streets?
15 Dec 08 - 08:44 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
Let's not leave out the late 50 year olds and early 60 year olds who are waiting impatiently to fill out the paperwork to dump their private insurance and get on Medicare. That's been bankrupt and if you think Madoff was a ponzi scheme, and are disgusted with the man, what will people feel when the government that has no one name attached to it, also declares it was a ponzi scheme?
15 Dec 08 - 08:48 gmt
anonymous said ...
AthenaDelphi you are adding no value this is supposed to be a hedge fund blog
15 Dec 08 - 08:48 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
I remember a Woody Allen movie where one of the characters asked the other: "What do you do for a living?" "I'm a money manager." "What does that mean?" "I manage people's money until there's nothing left"
15 Dec 08 - 08:49 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
I then come back and see my inbox of email alerts and find this link: news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081205/ap_on_bi_ge/farm_scene_cow_tax_2
Seems that I better stock up on canned beef and also start buying ETFs for ag commodities since nobody will be able to farm and 6 billion people will want more FOOD.
15 Dec 08 - 08:52 gmt
MacroHedgeBoy said ...
Old school hedge funds: 3rd party marketing, access if you 'know the right people', that same bunch of people in their 50's or 60's who all seem to know each other (managers and investors). Very very poor. Makes me want to phone up every fund of fund Analyst from those firms and ask why they gave us a hard time when they invested in the Madman fund..
15 Dec 08 - 08:53 gmt
anonymous. said ...
Athena, wait until the afternoon....it's Monday on a big news week
15 Dec 08 - 08:53 gmt
anonymous. said ...
@MacroHedgeBoy: This is classic golf club word of mouth stuff, amateur but old school as you say
15 Dec 08 - 08:56 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
@anon 8:53 - NOBODY listens to the news anymore. All they do is feel through osmosis the currents. Facts and figures don't mean squat to people who can't read at a college level. Only people reading Fintag know things. I can tell you I felt like I was in major withdrawal without my daily Fintag connection! My IQ went down about 50 points just talking to normal people who are idiots.
15 Dec 08 - 09:01 gmt
firsttimebuyer said ...
Fin, can you explain me why deflation is a non-starter?
15 Dec 08 - 09:02 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
Just a heads up - the FDIC increase from $100k to $250k that is insured will be back to $100k on Jan. 1, 2009. Expect runs on banks unless the Fed/Treasury keeps the limits increased. Everyone will be taking cash out and stuffing it into their mattress at home.
15 Dec 08 - 09:04 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
Yeah, Fin, you're going against 99.5% of the talking heads that we're in a deflationary spiral. Australian economics says deflation is a contraction of money supply. Are you basing your statement on the fact that there is not a contraction if money is being printed (ie - stimulus)?
15 Dec 08 - 09:05 gmt
GateMeIfYouCan said ...
Thank you Bernie for having ruined it for the rest of us. RIP FoHF industry. The damage is too great this time.
15 Dec 08 - 09:06 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
Last comment: I have to say that the woman who was with the TSA and felt me up going through security did absolutely nothing for me. However, coming home from Seattle, it was an early flight and the very nice male who had NO CHOICE (Hehehehe) but to pat me down as I triggered the beep, did do "something" for me. Maybe I just like the mornings best for my extracurricular activities?
15 Dec 08 - 09:08 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
PS: Fin, MrsR - please go out and get the CD or MP3 download of She Wants Revenge. New band and get their first album. I highly recommend it! Yappy men wanting to do the mile high club in a small cubicle on the plane had me rolling my eyes. I turned up the volume and pretended to sleep.
15 Dec 08 - 09:12 gmt
anonymous said ...
AthenaDelphi please shut the f up
15 Dec 08 - 09:18 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
@anon8:48 - you want the hedge? fine. ETF long would be GLD and the hedge would be short GDX. Or conversely go long GDX and short FCX on the notion that gold mining companies will be bought out but FCX will be left out of the pack. Another hedge would be centered on the ETF - GAF. Think China using failed states to make their move.
15 Dec 08 - 09:20 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
Long PZD/hedge with KOL since PEBO hates coal and is putting in a Nobel prize winning physicist in a key cabinet position.
15 Dec 08 - 09:23 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
First Solar for a pure play but this is risky for 3 reasons: their technology is already passe and ENER is next up to take advantage of the blue end of the spectrum, will congress pass stimulus that puts union coal workers out of business (?), and solar arrays on homes as a retro fit are problematic and causing lawsuits in California already between neighbors.
15 Dec 08 - 09:28 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
ETF - DBA hedged with MOO. See above link I provided.
On a diff subject..Fin, how vain to write your name in the seat..you really think you are Banksy?
15 Dec 08 - 09:35 gmt
anonymous said ...
athena sounds like a bored middle aged housewife trying to live out her hedge fund fantasies on this blog
15 Dec 08 - 09:47 gmt
MsR said ...
Anonymous 1: I knew it was a big news week for hedgies..usually stay out unless spoken to..good luck for the rest of week..sincerely
15 Dec 08 - 09:51 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
On a $1million portfolio I'm down 1.65% for the year. I've been doing this crap since before the Thai Bhat and LTCM went belly up. The subject is Madoff? He's a quack and lots of people got suckered because they were too 'effin' lazy to take care of their own money. Bored? Yep, but its getting interesting to see everyone crying now. Middle aged? If 30 is the new 20, then its a judgment call. Housewife? yep. 16 years. also CEO of a major drug research firm. Blow me.
15 Dec 08 - 10:09 gmt
Moron said ...
athena honey...u do realize 1 mill usd is chump change don't u...but well done anyway...after all u r only down 1.65% on ur million:))))) sorry if i sound rude......but i just can't stop laughing!
15 Dec 08 - 10:15 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
@moron: I can at least say I've got more then anyone who invested with Madoff. And according to Fin who says this will impact him for years to come because no one will trust money managers for the next 5 years or until their memory fades, then my $1 mil in cash is looking pretty good since I'm not paying fees out the ying yang and having been blocked from cashing out.
15 Dec 08 - 10:21 gmt
Moron said ...
women r amazing creatures:))
15 Dec 08 - 10:23 gmt
anonymous said ...
Flattery - oldest sales con in the book. I bet Eve used it.
15 Dec 08 - 10:26 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
@moron: not to bust your chops but as the hedgies go bye bye from their Wharton mathematical models that blew up and greedy old sops like Madoff come clean, prices come down HARD, and my $1mil will be waiting for the opportunity to make $1billion, so Moron, I should ask: When is your lease over with so I can move into your space since you'll be out of business soon?
15 Dec 08 - 10:26 gmt
anonymous said ...
moron what's with the stupid smileys in your posts?
15 Dec 08 - 10:27 gmt
Moron said ...
hedge funds will always be fine athena ..... just not as easy or glamourous as in the last few years.....but the business model still works...and has worked for dozens of years now
15 Dec 08 - 10:40 gmt
Top Cat said ...
I get into work late....to find 36 comments on here before 11am - what's going on? At least I have an email from Ms R in my inbox. I too think deflation is a extremely unlikely - it's happened a tiny number of times in recorded history. I still think the general public get deflation confused with low/falling inflation.
15 Dec 08 - 10:45 gmt
Panta said ...
@Athena.I thought that those Warton maths models were proper to IB which are collapsed or nationailised today..I think that hedgies are smarter people (of course not all of them but generally speaking)... Giving alpha form immagination not only from a B&S formula which doesn t work...why people tend to forget that the business is made by humans an not from boring brownian theories which try to explain the price of a derivative...
15 Dec 08 - 10:54 gmt
PAnta said ...
...this is all crap...price move up and down...and nobody still is capable to valuate the little epsilon in the CAPM. Well thanks to maths proffessor physicians...and "genious" today we are all gone cause this little epsilon fckd us all...that epsilon is just human nature....(fear and greed) and i think Hedgies know that very well...now Madoff is just a distortion of the systhem as anything else....and smart hedgies will survive...contrarily to banks
15 Dec 08 - 10:54 gmt
Mrjacket said ...
Hey Delph, what do you think about gold backwardation?....oh yeah, you too fin.
15 Dec 08 - 10:58 gmt
oldlurker said ...
Fin, when replying to firstimebuyer, can you explain not only "why deflation is a non-starter" but also how you can reconcile that view with the your other view, here expressed, that house prices will fall to 1991 levels? Completely contradictory, no?
15 Dec 08 - 11:04 gmt
anonymous said ...
Athena .... I remember last time you had a bout of verbal diarrhea you were proudly serving drinks at a bar ... Quite a step up to the C suite in a month ...
15 Dec 08 - 11:22 gmt
Moron said ...
Well put anon i still think athena is a bored tubby housewife living out her fantasies
15 Dec 08 - 11:31 gmt
Finbar said ...
Good point re housing and deflation. Deflation to me includes money supply and the CPI / RPI; not specific markets which just go up and down. Thanks for all the comments. I trust you must all be sitting on cash too. Or maybe a lot of debt and unemployment?
15 Dec 08 - 12:00 gmt
cockyspiv said ...
Are all these postings a sign of unemployed investment managers having nothing to do but comment on blogs and chatrooms?
Im too busy making money to comment ....
Morning MsR - Is the Krug still chilled in N1 ?
15 Dec 08 - 12:03 gmt
Panta said ...
@cockyspiv Brokers with no orders?
15 Dec 08 - 12:17 gmt
13:45 said ...
surely we'll have deflation for a bit... arnt' xmas sales signs for thigns to come? people pulling money out from circulation and storing under the mattress. invested money devalued. employment up, house prices down etc etc etc how can we not see deflation????
15 Dec 08 - 12:17 gmt
13:45 typo said ...
employment down!
15 Dec 08 - 12:18 gmt
13:45 said ...
oh and ps. $1million portfolio - hysterical.
15 Dec 08 - 12:20 gmt
MsR said ...
@cockyspiv..I am bemused by Madoff this morning..but wondering why local councils are allowed to take such risks with public money..I won't do an Athena (what was that?) it's a busy news week on this blog. Email me if you want to amuse me...I am working and being bored..the ladyrobinson@yahoo.com..no I won't reveal Fin's Id or yours...just ask TC. No Krug here. Not even a smoothie.
15 Dec 08 - 12:22 gmt
cockyspiv said ...
@panta LOL! there's always a way to make money
@MsR - will do
15 Dec 08 - 12:27 gmt
Moron said ...
Athena gone very quiet
15 Dec 08 - 12:59 gmt
anonymous said ...
The FinTag Catoons being offered below cost on eBay? Every thing for sale below book value is just too typical. Let's hope for a mad bidding frenzy... : )
15 Dec 08 - 13:07 gmt
KONG said ...
Just scoped London Wall waterstones for Fin's book. Either someone got there first or you didn't drop one there. I even checked the Kabala section. : (
15 Dec 08 - 13:09 gmt
Jaa said ...
Fin - deflation a non starter.. hmmm... The Fed's attempts thus far have not worked... firstly its attempt to influebce the total amount of credit outstanding depends not only on the banks willingness to lend(despite govt. interevention) but also willing borroweers(where are they) and ultimately upon an accommodating market psychology. Collective Fear will last a few years yet...
15 Dec 08 - 13:17 gmt
anonymous said ...
@ Moron shes looking after all that money.
15 Dec 08 - 15:05 gmt
Moron said ...
where is bart simpson???
15 Dec 08 - 15:07 gmt
Bart Simpson said ...
(Dog n Bone) Ring Ring (Moron) Moron's Tavern here, Moron speaking. (Bart) I thought you were missing me. Could I talk to Imov please, last name Irgin? (Moron) Uh, Irgin? Imov Irgin! Hey, everybody, Imov Irgin! (Moron) Wait a minute ...
15 Dec 08 - 15:20 gmt
Moron said ...
not quite so funny today mate...try harder...think of something to amuse us....(consciously avoiding annoying smiley face)
15 Dec 08 - 15:25 gmt
Bart Simpson said ...
I'm busy riding the Euro. It's not too late, you can still jump on the trend, my friend.
15 Dec 08 - 15:31 gmt
A confused woodlouse said ...
Are the books really on eBay? If so, I cannot see them...
15 Dec 08 - 15:44 gmt
Finbar said ...
@Confused. I contacted eBay and had them removed. They were forgeries ...
15 Dec 08 - 16:45 gmt
BENnies said ...
@anon 11:22 - I'm going to make a general statement here. One, even though I'm the CEO of a medical research firm, trying to cure diseases like Alzheimer's so you all can live longer with your memories of glory, I need to get out among the general people and see how they're living, thus I am "proudly serving drinks at a bar ..." on weekends.
15 Dec 08 - 17:22 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
@anon 11:22 - I'm going to make a general statement here. One, even though I'm the CEO of a medical research firm, trying to cure diseases like Alzheimer's so you all can live longer with your memories of glory, I need to get out among the general people and see how they're living, thus I am "proudly serving drinks at a bar ..." on weekends.
15 Dec 08 - 17:23 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
@Panta who said "Giving alpha form immagination not only from a B&S formula which doesn t work...why people tend to forget that the business is made by humans an not from boring brownian theories which try to explain the price of a derivative"
Yep, the brain is the best computer in the world - despite those silly chess games and stupid "models" about global warming
15 Dec 08 - 17:25 gmt
eek said ...
Athena, good grief!
ps - fin, I took a mooch around waterstones on london wall at around 4pm and, like kong, saw no copies of crap cartoons
15 Dec 08 - 17:26 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
I hate to tell you Moron and other Anon's but Hedge Fund Managers are the equivalent of: car salesmen. Some focus on the used variety, some are focused on selling the Lamborghini's. However, anyway you dress it up, hedge fund managers are salesmen and when one salesman such as Madoff and then Fortis Group start saying "the car is crap that we're selling them" or "sorry, can't even bring your car in for service for 90 days" .
15 Dec 08 - 17:29 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
Your worst problem is now yourselves. Hedge fund blowups every day tell the people I'm serving drinks to that you're all cheats and should get everything you deserve as well as 5-10 years behind bars. As a CEO, I'm hearing that capital is drying up to run drug studies because philanthropic people and universities are hunkering down and also think you guys should be doing 5-10 in Newgate.
15 Dec 08 - 17:35 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
Fin's right: You've got a massive PR problem as salesmen who ask people to give them their money and you'll sprinkle fairy dust on it to make it grow. They now know its all a ponzi scheme, the fairy dust is manure BUT AMAZINGLY, some of Madoff's people (and I'm sure your clients) know this and still go with you. BECAUSE they're lazy and yachting off the coast of France.
15 Dec 08 - 17:37 gmt
anonymous said ...
why do girls get so defensive.
15 Dec 08 - 17:39 gmt
AthenaDelphi said ...
and why do little boys get so upset when truth has merit? Now I'm done for the day, (clap if you want Moron and Anon) as I've got little boy scientists running around screwing up my studies and I've got to remind them that they're not practicing on rats in the lab anymore but real people who make bad choices and then don't tell their doctors, thus skewing my data results and preventing me from getting this drug to market so you guys can then hedge my company's shares.
15 Dec 08 - 17:53 gmt
anonymous said ...
We're at PowerLunch on CNBC and the dow is down over 100 but now recovering to slightly down 60 points. Looks like this is the James Bond tell for LeChieve - 3:30pm eastern will be a doozy.
15 Dec 08 - 18:35 gmt
Finbar said ...
h t t p://www.npb-bank.ch/images/content/f326f78.de/SentryEnglisch.pdf
Should I buy this?
15 Dec 08 - 18:39 gmt
anonymous said ...
ask delphi!
15 Dec 08 - 19:01 gmt
Moron said ...
athena sweetie....i have a question.....i'd really like to know whats bigger.....ur almighty personal portfolio (peanuts) or great little medicine shop or whatever it is.....is this mightly medical research firm of urs listed.....does it have a market cap larger or smaller than ur almightly personal portfolio..........apologies if i sound rude.....but u crack me up:)))
15 Dec 08 - 19:26 gmt
MsR said ...
Moron - you are funny, in a good way
15 Dec 08 - 19:35 gmt
anonymous said ...
FINBAR - No, you should not buy that. See Madoff mentioned page 3 of pdf presentation.
15 Dec 08 - 19:42 gmt
anonymous said ...
renaissance moving into bigger digs in NY. they must be doing okay.
facebook
free daily e-mail
feed
